Old Goat

Joined

• started 43 topics
• posted 586 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Old Goat

• 
  58

  If the Governing Body Told You They Love You All Very Much, What Would Your Reply Be?

  by steve2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a letter in the 2013 yearbook of jehovah's witnesses, the governing body sign off with the words, "we love you all very much".

  these words were later echoed by one of the governing body in an address to french jehovah's witnesses in july this year.

  these words sound so marvellously compelling and heartfelt - goosebump inducing, even.. imagine the governing body wrote these words to you or expressed them to you in person- yes to you reading these very words.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  Love is as love does. They love no one but themselves.
• 
  19

  Where did Russell steal 606/7 BCE from ?

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is something i have wondered about, and our great poster stillin posed the question on another thread .

  russell get the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 606/7 bce?

  (he adjusted 606 to 607 when it was pointed out there was no year "0").. as in the main a plagiarist, rather than an original thinker, i guess he got it from someone else ?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  Rather than being a plagiarist, Russell was an adapter. Plagiarism implies the use of another’s words without attribution. Russell adapted other’s ideas for his own use. That’s not the same thing. But it is fair to say that Russell never had an original thought in his life.

  Russell stuck to the 606 BC date. The 607 revision came later. But both dates have a history. Russell never read John A. Brown’s Even-Tide. Barbour did, but Brown does not point to 536 BC or 1914. He pointed to 1917.

  The immediate source of the 606 date was E. B. Elliott’s Horae. The 607 date was advocated by Samuel Davies Baldwin. See his Armageddon: Or the Overthrow of Romanism and Monarchy’ The Existence of the United States Foretold in the Bible, Its Future Greatness; Invasion by Allied Europe; Annihilation of Monarchy; Expansion into the Millennial Republic, and its Dominion over the Whole World, Applegate and Company, Cincinnati, 1863, page 424.

  Russell and his associates did not live in a vacuum. All this was discussed widely in the 1870s, not just by millenarians and Adventists, but by main-stream preachers. Russell, contrary to WatchTower claims, was not an independent Bible student. He read what others wrote and kept what appealed to his imagination, scriptural or not.

  Some of this history is recounted in Schulz and de Vienne’s Nelson Barbour: The Millennium’s Forgotten Prophet. You should read both their books. Visit their blog here http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
• 
  12

  Some good books to read?

  by thedepressedsoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i just finished crysis of a conscience and all i have to say is wow!

  showed how they sadly look for doctrine changes to fit their agenda vs what the bible says.

  any new light or changes i'll be wondering the real motive behind them.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  About Witnesses: Schulz and de Vienne: Nelson Barbour the Millennium's Forgotten Prophet and their Separate Identity.

  Fiction? I've been re-reading David Eddings books. Rienhart's Circular Staircase is still good.
• 
  11

  JW NWT AND OTHER BIBLE TRANSLATIONS ARE FALSE!

  by ADJUSTMENTS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  to begin, i'm not trying to stir up any "conspiracy theories" or promote them but with the recent release of the nwt and "world government" convention tracts it's opened up the of door to the so called "conspiracy theories" for many.. so if your the type that's already turned of by the word "conspiracy theory" i suggest you leave this page and please don't comment, for those of us who can use your brain to reason and think, take a look at a couple videos and sites that makes you go hmm... and connect the dots.. the first video actually goes into depth and mentions the many falsehoods of the jw nwt at 13:50 and 1:04:25. for some reason it is not directly linking it is entitled new world order bible versions (full version ) about nine videos down.. .

  https://m.youtube.com/results?q=new+world+order&sm=1.

  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r8c1sc8lljm.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  Stupidity always leaves me speechless.
• 
  33

  Just Curious About Something

  by EmptyInside in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry,couldn't think of a better title for this post,without it being long.. i was thinking this morning,if ex-jws, who were born into the group less likely to join another religion after leaving.

  vs. the witnesses who belonged to a church before joining the religion.. from my own prespective,being raised a witness,i have no intention of joining any religion.

  and it seems that born-ins are less likely to join a religion after leaving the cult.. in my own experience,i think it's religious burn-out to tell the truth.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  I wasn't born in. I won't join another religion. I'm tired of self-serving religions.
• 
  22

  Pioner book 2014

  by abner in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry my bad englich i need the new book for pioners , edition 2014 !

  in pdf or doc, please!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  The Pioneer School textbook won't answer your questions.
• 

  Christian Mysticism and Russell?

  by Old Goat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  see the new post here http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/.

  what an interesting thought.

  i want to know more.. .

• 

  Old Goat

  See the new post here http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/

  What an interesting thought. I want to know more.
• 
  29

  WTS one step closer to "1984" - JW literature rewritten in online versions

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  likely everyone here is familar with the novel "1984" - "he who controls the past, controls the future.

  he who controls the present, controls the past".. take a look at wol.jw.org, insight book, topic "faithful and discreet slave".. current online wording: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001485.

  jesus trained the apostles for the role they would have after pentecost 33 c.e.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  This is unethical by anyone's standards.
• 
  11

  Jehovahs Witnesses and New Light

  by smiddy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  charles taze russell was chosen by god jehovah to reveal to mankind the way to salvation in this time of the end.. charles taze russell embarks on a public speaking program that takes him all over the world with him giving lectures in many countrys .. my question to jehovahs witnesses : was that holy spirit , inspired revelations that he gave ?

  was that new light from jehovah ?

  new truths ?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  As far as I can tell Russell never read J. A. Brown's book. Barbour did. But J. A. Brown did not originate the 2520 year count of Gentile Times. An American clergyman was first. Having ideas similar to someone else is not plagiarism. Plagiarism is the use of another's words without attribution.

  The immedite source of the 1914 date is E. B. Elliott. Barbour read Elliott's Horae. He said so. Russell never mentions Elliott, and I think he never bothered to read his book. Some of Russell's associates did.

  You'll get a better view of the place of J. A. Brown's relationship to Barbour from Schulz and de Vienne: Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's forgotten prophet. It's on lulu.com. ebook is elsewhere too.

  Brown was a silver and gold smith by trade, and very involved in prophetic studies and mission work to the Jews. I tried to trace his education, but while I could trace that of his sons, I could not find where he was educated. His books are a bit prolix, but most religious books from that era are. He wrote a short article for an Anglican magazine about 1810 as I recall. It's much easier to read.

  Better, more accurate history than you will usually find on this board is found here
  http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/
• 
  4

  George Storrs (early Russell associate) had some class

  by stirred but not shaken in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the book "a separate identity" p.248 & 249 by schulz and de vienne there is a quote from storrs that is prefaced this way: this wasn't the first time barbour and storrs had clashed.

  though not naming barbour, after the 1874 failure storrs addressed barbour's dictatorial exclusivity and failed predictions:.

  "teachers who manifest a disposition to exalt self and make it appear that they are something remarkable, are unmistakably false teachers.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Old Goat

  Bits such as this one are why I’ve been recommending this book and their history blog. Separate Identity is stellar research. lulu.com, Amazon and B & N all have it. Dr. de Vienne said on their web site that they largely self-fund their research and buying through lulu.com brings them more money than buying from Amazon.

  You can't find most of what they present anywhere else, and it is full of footnotes if you want to explore their sources. Their history blog is here:

  http://truthhistory.blogspot.com/